Author Topic: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)  (Read 25319 times)

Steve

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Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« on: November 24, 2010, 02:29:52 PM »
At http://www.cammegh.com/product.php?product=mercury360rrc&tabs=1-0-0-0 Cammegh showcases one of their new wheels where the rotor changes speed after no more bets is called. This is the alternative to calling no more bets before ball release, which would ultimately cost the casino in lost revenue (because of many late bettors who lose). Some automated wheels have been doing this kind of thing for a while. Generally any serious player first scouts for the 'best' conditions possible - it all starts with wheel selection and doesnt make sense to play in more difficult conditions. But if you are forced to play them, this will be relevant to you:

My experience with them is for some methods, accuracy is dramatically reduced if not nullified so you wouldnt bother. For other methods, they make very little to no difference. For example, it does not overly affect wheel analysis methods where you bet before ball release - it does make life more difficult though. It will in particularly affect a 'basic' ballistic approach, such as visual ballistics or a basic roulette computer where you rely heavily on rotor strike points.

If you look at roulette from a traditional advantage play perspective, you will look at only the point at which the ball strikes the rotor. But in reality you need to consider the long term and the patterns that manifest.

There is no escaping the long term. As long as the ball and wheel physically exist, and the physical properties do not change, there will always be long term predictable patterns. Even if some physical properties change mid-game, which some do anyway, there will still be at least some element of predictability to exploit.

So that I'm clear:... say if you used a RNG (random number generator) to determine which number will be under the ball when it falls. This would NOT be predictable. Now if you used Cammegh's RRC to "randomize" the rotor speed so that the number under the ball is randomized, is this the same thing?.. IS IT NOT THE SAME THING - ONE HAS PROGRESS, THE OTHER DOES NOT. Other advantage players and even Cammegh may read this and not believe or understand. The difference centers around the real and physical vs non-physical.

There's no denying the approach to beating such wheels is not as 'straight-forward', but it is far from impossible. Computer players need to use the in-built computer features to determine IF rotor speed varies - yes it does this too, since a particular player wanted to only play automated wheels which was years ago. For further information, if players encounter such wheels, contact me directly or see the player only sections.

On another note, such wheels may actually be illegal. If you notice them, report it. That's because it is almost always unlawful to influence outcomes of games. But they may argue the outcome is still "random" - it's one step closer to a slot machine though, and already many casinos have ANIMATIONS of wheels instead of real roulette wheels and these should never be trusted because that's not roulette - it's a slot machibe with roulette graphics.

In many jurisdictions, including Australia, achieving a financial advantage by deception is illegal. One may argue that the "discretion" feature of such wheels is DECEPTION, and this would pave the way for law suits against the casinos. The only way around this for the casino is to disclose the feature. But that will lead to more lost revenue because of lack of trust in the integrity of the game.

Either way, most players I know simply dont trust automated wheels, or wheels that have any such features. So casinos using the technology may be losing casinos more than they realize, when they're simply trying to protect themselves from the 0.02% of players that are professionals. That's why cammegh really pushes the "discretion" factor on their website. How many players would notice there was something odd about rotor behavior, and be deterred from play? How much would this lose the casinos? How many players are actually professional?

Ultimately casinos will try and protect themselves.. I mean try and steal money from desperate people while hiding behind a "legal" screen claiming they operate ethically. And people will always be on their case trying to earn a living. A cat and mouse game and that's how it'll probably always be.

cwing88

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 03:30:11 PM »
yes. Ladbrokescasino has a wheel like that. Changing wheel speed after no more bets is called.
However, it stop providing services to customers in Hong Kong (me) and China. last week.

路姆西

Steve

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 03:33:29 PM »
They'd actually be losing more revenue that way because the average player has no clue about advantage play anyway, but when they see spin influence, they lose trust and play elsewhere.

In many casinos you can see people generally dont like the automated wheels because of the trust factor.

Doobie

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2010, 07:54:03 PM »
Had my fair share of auto wheels and they are ok with provisions and extra work, but on the whole no way i would trust an auto wheel or something with rotor speed changes over a normal wheel.

Bradstreet

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 08:49:17 AM »
should this really be in a public section? eggheads on another forum to be be nameless hurt real professionals so they feel better about themselves. Complete eggheads who even log onto online casinos and identify themselves as ap then fuck it up for the real players. they arent professionals, just glory hounds who have nothing to lose, but the real players do. Its as bad as howie showing video of a casino he says he just robbed but we all know what a load of bs that guy is. You get my drift. no you didnt do any of that crap but I think there needs to be more discretion. Leave us to know what can and cant be done

Steve

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Bradstreet

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2010, 10:13:40 AM »
Read that now loud and clear

ique

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 12:32:52 PM »
At http://www.cammegh.com/product.php?product=mercury360rrc&tabs=1-0-0-0 Cammegh showcases one of their new wheels where the rotor changes speed after no more bets is called. This is the alternative to calling no more bets before ball release, which would ultimately cost the casino in lost revenue (because of many late bettors who lose). Some automated wheels have been doing this kind of thing for a while. Generally any serious player first scouts for the 'best' conditions possible - it all starts with wheel selection and doesnt make sense to play in more difficult conditions.

Hi Steve

I know this is an old thread but I must ask about what specifically constitutes as an automated wheel?  Are you referring to those air (hydraulic powered) wheels in the located in the middle of a bunch of touch screen betting terminals around it - Rapid Roulette as they would call it?  Thanks.

Steve

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 01:44:47 PM »
Rapid roulette at crown is spun by a real dealer, but they also had auto wheels last i checked.

Automated wheel is simply no dealer needed - everything is done automatically.

The Cammegh RRC is somethign different. Real dealer, but the rotor speed is mechanically changed after no more bets is called. Depending on certain variables, and the method of prediction being used, it can have a big effect or no significant effect at all.

But one thing is certain... overall, IN THE LONG TERM, casinos using them will lose more from the lost player confidence than they gain from protecting themselves from professional players. Sure, most players wont notice RRC. How many do? How much would that be in lost revenue? How many advantage players are there? The casinos need to do the math.

I know of a few casinos that tried the auto wheels because spins are more frequent. But they were replaced by proper wheels. RRC is just a more disguised version.

ique

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 02:50:01 PM »
Thanks for your prompt response.  That's startling news to me pertaining to automated wheels (the local Rapid Roulette is automated).  So which particular company/brand/make of the automated wheels would you be referring to? 

Oh, that wouldn't really affect the makeup of the black and red even chance game would it?  Apologize in advance if the question is too obvious.

silanarchy

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 05:17:47 PM »
As the title states its Cammegh wheels, its kind of rare to see these wheels in a live casino even rapid roulette, they were built more for the online/internet live dealer casinos of which the majority do not accept bets after release anyway, i suggest you become a player if you want more indepth info from Steve or other members.
All in all its certain casinos being over cautious and paranoid...

hamishmac

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 08:51:32 PM »
What are the distinguishing features of the Mercury 360 RRS from a normal wheel, so that I/we can pick it out when at a live table???

Steve

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 09:10:47 PM »
The idea is they LOOK exactly the same. In the player only area is free software that you use to assess wheels, to see if RRC is being used. With time and experience it is not at all difficult to see what the wheel does without help of tools.

orey66

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2011, 09:54:41 AM »
Even then long term patterns will still exist.. I dont think they can take any full proof counter measures on advantage play, just makes things harder, thats all. They have to understand that everything relates to the universe and theres a cause and effect for everything.

hamishmac

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Re: Rotor randomizer (cammegh mercury 360 with RRC)
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2011, 12:10:26 PM »
A lot of the casinos are starting to implement electronic roulette tables. not Touchbet terminals. By digitised tables themselves so that all the dealer has to do is spin the wheel and ball. No more worrying about paying out or chips..

IS it likely they would be using a Mercyry 360 RRc on these table.

Empires runs out both sides of the wheel. i.e. 2 tables side by side with wheel in middle.

Gala has standard single.