Roulette Physics Forum

Public Board => Public Board => RNG Roulette => Topic started by: Bradstreet on December 06, 2010, 01:17:52 PM

Title: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Bradstreet on December 06, 2010, 01:17:52 PM
I know rng is a bit of a waste of time as you cant beat it. But is there actually any hope for it?
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Hawkeye on December 14, 2010, 11:57:00 PM
was that a tumbleweed I saw float by?  :P
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: ShelbyGT on January 04, 2011, 10:49:25 AM
The day someone has a working system for beat rng day is the day that, well it will probably never happen. I think to play rng your best way to do it is have a system that preserves bankroll in losing streaks and relies on profiting by dodging the bullet.

So if you profit unless something happens with odds 1 in 100,000, maybe that would be as close as you can get because who here will ever play 100,000 spins in their life?
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Steve on January 04, 2011, 01:26:36 PM
I have said many times I believe the best chances of beating rng is either:

1. Something similar to www.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf (http://www.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf) OR
2. Precognition (www.genuinewinner.com/precog.html (http://www.genuinewinner.com/precog.html))

I do not accept that it is entirely impossible to predict RNG. Just that if there is a way, I dont believe anyone has truly refined it unless you are counting finding flaws in rng software, but that was many years ago.
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: lag spike on February 20, 2011, 02:46:45 PM
Beating RNG is the holy grail
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Proofreaders2000 on April 13, 2011, 07:50:21 PM
Saw on a slot machines board "Insane11" had a snapshot of an RNG win.  After study, it seemed he bet on the coldest block of numbers, which consisted of three splits together on two rows. 
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Steve on April 14, 2011, 10:09:08 AM
Screenshots and videos are proof of nothing though. Even my own videos, although legitimate, should not be seen as proof but its just what people want to see.

A method for rng needs to be more than just a combination of bets. It still needs to address the accuracy of predictions - it is 100% certainty. The question is HOW can it be done? I do believe there is a way - nothing is impossible. But I dont believe anyone has found it, yet. You can develop fractals and patterns with rng, but this doesnt actually help predicting spins.
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: twister on April 14, 2011, 12:41:20 PM
The rng generators you get with your home computer are not the same as what they use with the online casinos and slot machines. I think they use special equipment. So you might be able to do it with your home computer but still the real thing will be different.

I think it is a dead end but if someone had the components the casinos use then it is one step to finding out how numbers are chosen.
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: twister on April 14, 2011, 12:43:13 PM
I found this. maybe will help?

Casino Random Number Generators Revealed
Unlocking the Mysteries of Casino RNG’s

Did you ever wonder just who – or what – decides what number will come up on an internet game of roulette? What determines whether an Ace or a 4 will be dealt out in a video poker game?  How it’s decided what symbol will show up on a video slot machine?   Just how it’s determined which way the dice will roll in an online craps game?

Well, first of all, it’s not a who, it’s a what. And that “what” is called a Random Number Generator, which is often abbreviated as RNG. Put very simply, an RNG is a system for generating a totally random series of numbers. “Random”?

Yes: Random, unconnected, unpredictable, lacking any pattern.  The number that just was generated in no way controls or influences the number or numbers that follow.  The fact that the last number generated was a 6 does not preclude the next number from being a 6 again, nor does it in any way predict what number is going to follow next, or even what number is likely to follow next.

This is useful not only in online casinos but also in statistical work and in cryptography, and in some security applications. But what is a random number generator? How does it work – and is it similar to a poker room RNG?

It can be a mathematical formula that can be worked out on paper (albeit laboriously), or it can be (and these days much more often is) a computer program.  While some computer programs fall short of total randomness (although coming close, with no discernible patterns), others are the 100% genuine article.

Even in the ancient days, something of a rudimentary random number generator existed: People drew cards or tossed dice to pick a number or series of numbers from 1 to 10 or 1 to 6 at random.  Today, computers use algorithms (sets of specific rules) to generate long or infinite sets of unrelated and unpredictable numbers.  More common than true RNGs are PRNGs, or pseudo-random number generators. These algorithms can create runs as long as millions of numbers that are genuinely random, but after that the sequence repeats itself, or the memory usage involved becomes more than the computer can handle.

Many PRNGs, however, while unsuited to cryptography, security applications, or perhaps to statistical work, are quite adequate for casino work, non-casino video games, and other such applications.  Many RNGs and PRNGs require the user to specify an initial value. This is called a “seed.” If you initialize the RNG/PRNG with same seed twice in a row, you will get the same set of “random” numbers twice in a row. This can be a good thing… such as in cryptography, where both parties need to be able to replicate each other’s results. But by varying the seed, you get a completely different set of numbers. This makes the application suitable for such uses as in online casinos. Some programs use the clock time as the seed, thus obviating the need for human choice at all.

One type of random number generator actually involves several RNGs running simultaneously, with a sort of “boss” RNG picking from among the results. Let’s say there are five “lower-level” RNGs, each generating a number in tandem. And let’s say that on one round the numbers generated are 2, 5, 26, 47, and 41. The “top boss” RNG then selects— again, at random— one of these five numbers… let’s say 26. Thus there is sort of a double randomness to the calculation.

If you’ve ever wondered just how the online casinos “choose” which cards are going to come up, which roulette numbers the wheel will “spin” to, or what the fall of the dice will be, wonder no more. Like so much else these days, it’s all done with computers!
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Steve on April 14, 2011, 01:04:32 PM
See http://www.protego.se (http://www.protego.se) - it's a company in Sweden. You can also see www.random.org (http://www.random.org)

You dont need to go all-out though. Even with so called "true rng" it is still not random. But whether or not its predictable is another thing. For one thing you dont have the variables, unlike with real wheels.

I'd love to have more time to find a way to beat rng, but you can waste a life on and and still not succeed. If its only about money, then consider there are other much easier ways to make money by beating roulette. RNG isnt roulette anyway. It's a computer game.
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: JBT on April 15, 2011, 12:11:27 AM
Id love to spend time looking at rng but I think I'm having too much fun with advantage play. If aint broke, why fix it?  :P

jb
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Steve on April 15, 2011, 10:54:16 AM
Quote
If aint broke, why fix it?

Yes that is logic, but 15 or so years ago I was never interested in advantage play - I saw it as too difficult or fiddly. I wanted an easy formula such as "after 10 reds bet black". There may be an easy way, or a holy grail, but if money is your aim, as you so eloquently said "If aint broke, why fix it?".
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: JBT on April 27, 2011, 09:01:15 PM
There is no easy fix, so to speak, for roulette. None that I found anyway. Even the computers can be hard going in some conditions. It seems everyone starts out looking for the easy way.

jb
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2011, 11:23:29 AM
Soon I'll get a programmer to create software to help exploit rng, wherever it may be exploitable. It is intended to act as a form of AI using random algorithms to check for anything predictable. It'll work a lot faster than anyone. Years ago I had such a program and patterns were found, but none that were usable. It is not a priority though so I wouldnt hold your breath for it.
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: ReDsQuad on July 19, 2011, 06:42:19 PM
In my experience with RNG, i do believe the RNG has a counterstrike built inside to negate any system (Playtech). For this reason, i don't believe RNG is possible to beat.

I am NOT saying its impossible though. I used to think roulette was not beatable until i dug a little deeper.

I believe this counter strike lets you win for a bit, then bites and cleans you out.

As for Play Mode, your system will work and win to make you put real money in.

Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: orey66 on August 03, 2011, 08:26:13 AM
Generally I don't think anything is unpredictable, but one thing I know for sure is that the game is rigged. From what I have seen, if you win a certain amount on RNG, there is a code embedded in the system to make you lose some. Also if your playing those roulette machines at your local bookies (like ladbrokes, william & hill, betfred etc), you need to put in atleast 500 GBP or more, because the more you put in, the greater the chances of you winning....I have seen this happen nearly everytime. The chinese and koreans of where i live, come in to the bookies and usually start from around £500 or more and they finish with a bankroll of 2K to 3K on the roulette machines. Some people might say thats just unreal winning on RNG roulette, but all I can say is if you know how RNG works, you will have a better chance of winning than anyone else. Personally I'd rather stick to real wheels :-)
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Steve on August 03, 2011, 09:30:43 AM
It is actually common for rng casinos to fig payouts completely. ie they can consider your bets, and create a losing number for you. It is even explained in the sales sites for software that casinos use. Real wheels should be all you ever play on.

http://rouletteforum.cc/online-gaming/*documented*-proof-of-cheating-rng-software/ (http://rouletteforum.cc/online-gaming/*documented*-proof-of-cheating-rng-software/)
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: orey66 on August 03, 2011, 11:36:49 AM
Thats just ILLEGAL!! not fair at all on the players who put in their hard earned cash...This is cheating and shouldn't be allowed at all!!...I am pretty digusted how they can do this to people. I feel for those players who keep playing RNG roulette thinking that its safe, where the casino ensures trust and fairness on their websites.

In that case it may be beatable to a certain extent, where a player has knowledge on when the RNG is about to make him lose, therefore baling out before he losses his profits. Not sure how he would find out?? but if you have the same resources as the online casinos, you will have a chance to know when losing streaks will occur. In all honestly my advice to anyone is STAY AWAY FROM RNG!!! Its just not worth it.

Thankss for the article...really did open my eyes.
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: ReDsQuad on August 04, 2011, 01:09:08 AM
Thats just ILLEGAL!! not fair at all on the players who put in their hard earned cash...This is cheating and shouldn't be allowed at all!!...I am pretty digusted how they can do this to people.

Welcome to the real world :)
Title: Re: Any hope for rng roulette systems?
Post by: Steve on August 04, 2011, 09:58:41 AM
"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal"
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

In the real world, what is legal is not what is right or moral.